Progress & method to reduce airflow restriction.

Saxonette, Spartamet und andere
ndrscons

Progress & method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von ndrscons »

Update: Ich hoffe, dass ich dies richtig zu Deutsch heute übersetzt.
I read deiter's commentary and so have re-written this to get it easier for the german-language translation.
Thank you deiter for the translation summary.

Progress [Updated at 1700CET 13.AUG]:
Photo is of returning from the market
eBild
I don't know how important it is to 'blank' out the license. Image is not displaying... Now it is. Thank you for the tip, dieter.


It goes a strong 23-25kmph with a passenger, less with wind resistance, up hill, etc. Again there wasn't so much an interest in speed, as in power, so it doesn't sputter-out on small bridges, etc.

The airflow un-restriction method used:
1. The first method posted to remove the most restricted flow area posted on the http://spartamet.forum2go.nl forum, which yoekio referred to [thank you], was for 1a. drilling ~6 large ~10mm holes in the round plastic which surrounds the air filter - and thank you very much to the author [prutser2009, administrator of http://spartamet.forum2go.nl] who did the research and measurements of the air-flow passageways.

Links: 1a. http://spartamet.forum2go.nl/luchttoevo ... 92-15.html and 1b. http://spartamet.forum2go.nl/luchttoevo ... n-t92.html

2. Additionally, by the same author there was a method which required a drill press, and a bolt extractor bit, to rectify the artificial restriction of the main passageway in the vergaser. These tools are expensive items, and for many who only have a bike and simple power tools, such as a ubiquitous cordless drill, there may be too many obstacles. Purchasing the drill press for a single use is impractical. Taking the bike off-line while a machinist does the work, more practical but still overly inconvenient for most.
Links: http://spartamet.forum2go.nl/opboren-ca ... e-t28.html and http://spartamet.forum2go.nl/post6665.html


This modification to step 1a are less-invasive physical changes to the SACHS cover on the back, with simpler tools. There are some small cuts and holes to make with simple household tools.
The modification for 1b continues to require a slight modification of the second piece of plastic with the same tools. It is only necessary to make two short cuts with a hacksaw blade through soft plastic and then snap off the tab of plastic. Takes about five minutes and almost anyone can do it themselves.
With the only change to #1b being that the modification and recommendation to only go about 3/4 of the indicated depth.
Everything else is the same for #1b as per the original author.

1a. The newer methods [here] of steps 1a and 1b, continue to remove artificial airflow restrictions around the round plastic and air filter, with the additional desire to keep the noise level low. So, e.g. by the first version of 1a method direct, large ports for inflow of air to the surface of the air-filter. These would be directly adjacent to the metal air intake port on the vergaser block. This is believed to project more noise to the surrounding, as now the round cover serves almost no purpose in reducing noise to the outside environment. Engineering it so the plastic round cover for the air-filter played a greater role in reducing noise was important, as well as simplifying the operation as many people have a simple hacksaw and the material is a soft plastic. Even only the hack-saw blade is enough, no handle required. A 10mm HSS drill bit is less likely to be had, and while only about 6EUR it would only be used once, and still there is the noise factor. So the purpose was to use slightly more common tools everyone is likely to have access to, and continue to keep all the modifications to twenty minutes total, and place the cover directly back on the bike to put it immediately back into operation.

The method tested and in use for 1b, was by cutting 2 slots with an ordinary, thin metal-type (fine tooth designed for metal) hacksaw blade, about 3/4 of the length shown in the original photo on the dutch forum. Then simply snap the tab of plastic off.
The method tested and in use for 1a, was by cutting many slots, from the base of the round plastic shroud, with additional small ~2mm holes drilled near the top in the same round shroud. The slots were spaced about 1cm apart, and no wider than the thickness of the round shroud's plastic, and cut on an angle.

The purpose of cutting the slots at an angle, was so sound travelling from the intake port would be interrupted by the edges of plastic. See photos below.

A few additional holes ( ~6 to 7), were placed on the bottom of the 'SACHS' cover, with an ordinary household kitchen sponge cut and glued with instant glue, above the holes, to reduce noise, and unwanted dust/moisture from entering.

2.
This modification of #2 increases the main air passageway diameter to slightly over 8mm (thank you dieter for the corrected measurement) without removing any components from the vergaser, using common tools probably everyone has, plus Proxxon bit package 28781, in a 3x package. ~3 EURO. It also requires the #46 jet, which can be picked-up on ebay.de with a set of jets, #46, #48 and #50 for about 23EUR. Note: The package I picked-up does NOT have the connector for the fuel filter basket, but I haven't needed it.
Increasing the vergaser neck diameter:
The #2 original method of relaxing artificial airflow restrictions required removing the fuel tube with a bit extractor, then using a large machine, a drill press, to make the hole increase to 10mm. Most are not going to have a drill press or a bit extractor, or feel comfortable with the level of skill required to do it properly. And the cost of making a mistake is also expensive, so the effort is to minimize chances of doing-so remain.

The method used to protect the fuel tube while also increasing the carburettor (vergaser) to a modest 8,1mm (from 7,3?) so the engine breathes better was a Proxxon bit 28-781 attached to an ordinary cordless drill, at medium-low RPM, with the bit set in the chuck and the aluminium block removed from the bike, as if you were going to do a normal jet cleaning or swap (#42 -> #46). The jet has already been upgraded to a #46 and the unrestricted ignition module is in use, though there is a slight noticeable 'dampness' in the mixture (slightly too rich) with the existing 7,3mm throat. The zundkerze is an IX4RX.

Place the aluminium vergaser block on a flat, solid surface at waist-height (normal table height). It is not necessary to remove the fuel tube, jet, or the throttle or choke. Just exercise normal levels of attention and this will go ok.

With the vergaser on the table, lightly tighten the Proxxon 28-781 inside the chuck (the teeth of the drill), so that by pushing on the bit, it can slide all the way into the drill. Bring the bit back out so only a few mm of the shank are inside the chuck. Now, pointing the drill straight down, press the bit down inside the hole and it will self-align with the main passageway, and the bit shank will slide into the chuck. Now, lift the drill straight-up and out, and pull the bit out about 1-2mm, then tighten the chuck completely. 'Drill' medium-slow down, into the vergaser, and this will mill out the inside of the throat 1-2mm along it's length, and then automatically stop when the drill chuck can go no further.

Remove the drill, and loosen the bit, and repeat the process. When doing it several times, and approaching the fuel tube, just be watchful; use closer attention to the amount you are going to grind, in max 1mm increments. Eventually, the drill will be 'pushing' a crescent-moon shaped piece of aluminium out of the block, directly next to the fuel tube. Watch for this moment. Go slowly and there is no doubt in my mind if ye are careful, it will go very well.

The only limitation of this method is if you want to make the throat or neck, more than 8,1mm open, it would be necessary to find a grinding bit which is 9mm, 9,5mm etc, that has a flat face. Although I can say, I am very happy with the performance and strength of the bike. I feel the intent was to make the bike run in the most environmentally-friendly way, closest to the design characteristics of the engine, without silly limitations which actually make the engine run worse, and the ride less enjoyable.

There was some debate as to going with the NL version of the engine, a different gearing, however the DE version means more power over all speed ranges due to lower gearing. If it was geared to go faster, this would reduce the power to something unusable.

Photos:
The foto below is with the front seat removed. It can be used this way without second rider. The pilot sits on the rear seat.
2013-08-13 11.44.558.jpg
Dateianhänge
2013-08-13 11.43.525.jpg
2013-08-13 11.41.434.jpg
2013-08-13 11.41.203.jpg
2013-08-13 11.40.482.jpg
2013-08-13 11.40.091.jpg
Zuletzt geändert von ndrscons am Dienstag 13. August 2013, 16:12, insgesamt 12-mal geändert.
Dieter-K

Re: Progress, method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von Dieter-K »

Your little mistake was that the last [/Img] must be added in the same line and without any blanc.
Now the photo is visible.

-------------------------

Wenn ich ndrscons' Posting richtig verstehe, ist das eine kleine Tuninganleitung.
Er beschreibt, wie er dem Motor mehr Luft verschafft hat.
Weiter geht es damit, wie er den Vergaser aufgebohrt hat einschließlich detaillierter Anleitung dazu, ohne das Mischrohr entfernen zu müssen.
Die Düse hat er auf Nummer 46 vergrößert.

Sein Englisch ist brillant und er schreibt stilistisch bestimmt anspruchsvoll. Der Google-Übersetzer hat aber mit komplizierten Sätzen und einem umfassenden technischen Wortschatz massive Probleme. Um dieses Posting richtig und umfassend zu verstehen, reichen meine Englischkenntnisse leider auch nicht mehr.

Ndrscons Saxonette läuft nun zu seiner vollsten Zufriedenheit um 26km/h mit deutschen Getriebe und T-Modul.
Dabei ging es ihm nicht so sehr um Höchstgeschwindigkeit sondern um Kraft.
Dieses für NDRscons an sich großartige Ergebnis ist bisher kein Grund, den Text vollständig zu übersetzen. Auch muss man die Arbeiten nicht im Detail nachvollziehen. Wir haben ja auch unsere bekannten Methoden für Sieger-Moppeds.
Solche Geschwindigkeiten schaffen die meisten im Forum mit D-Getriebe. Die Kraft bei niedriger Drehzahl kann man nicht beurteilen, da jeder Vergleich und jeder Maßstab fehlt.

In England ist Tuning fast ein Selbstverständlichkeit. Die Formel-1 Rennställe sind zum größten Teil dort beheimatet. Tuning hat Tradition. TÜV und ähnliche, die Kreativität behindernde deutsche Erfindungen, sind dort weitgehend unbekannt.

NDRscons sollte sich zum nächsten Forumtreffen anmelden, auch wenn es voraussichtlich ein weiter Weg von Berlin werden dürfte (wer weiß?). Ich würde mich freuen, ihn persönlich kennen zu lernen.

Grüße - Dieter

PS:
Fuel tube bedeutet hier Mischrohr (statt Benzinschlauch)!
Proxxon bit 28-781 ist ein 8mm zylindrischer Schleifkörper: http://www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/tool ... g.php?list
ndrscons

Re: Progress, method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von ndrscons »

I will have this translated into proper german immediately then, dieter.

:morgähn:

... and put it at the top of the post
Benutzeravatar
tnt-dennis
Beiträge: 1270
Registriert: Mittwoch 22. Oktober 2008, 07:41
Wohnort: Titz

Re: Progress & method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von tnt-dennis »

Für die, die es genauer wissen wollen.

Wie Dieter schon schrieb geht es um mehr Luft ohne größere Geräuschentwicklung und um das Aufbohren des Vergasers ohne Standbohrmaschine.

LUFT:
Es wurden nicht wie vorgeschlagen 6 große Löcher in das runde Kunstoffteil um den Luftfilter gebohrt (zu laut).
Es wurden mit einem Puck-Sägeblatt schmale Schlitze, schräg angesetzt in das runde Kunstoffteil gesägt und ein paar kleine 2,5mm Löcher dazu.
Außerdem wurde der hintere Deckel am Boden gelocht und diese Löcher mit einem scotch Küchenschwamm überklebt.

VERGASER:
Das Vergrößern des Venturi wurde mit dem von Dieter beschriebenen Proxon Bit geschliffen.
Keine Standbohrmaschine, sondern Akkuschrauber.
Das Bit lose in das Bohrfutter eingespannt, so dass es noch beweglich ist, auf den Vergaser aufgesetzt bis das Bohrfutter auf dem Vergaser aufliegt. Hierbei rutscht das Bit ins Bohrfutter, da der Stein ja noch zu groß für die Vergaser-Bohrung ist. Dann das Bit wieder 1 bis 2mm aus dem Bohrfutter herausgezogen und festgezogen. So hat man eine Arbeitstiefe von 1 bis 2mm bis das Bohrfutter wieder auf dem Vergaser aufsitzt. Diese Prozedur wiederholen bis man ans Mischrohr gelangt.

Die 46er Düse hat Dieter ja auch schon erwähnt.

Das war´s im Groben. Soweit ich es verstanden habe.

Gruß
Dennis
ndrscons

Re: Progress & method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von ndrscons »

Hmm... it seems (dieter) the 28781 is only 8mm yes. Well, I think that places the original diameter at about 7,3 or 7,4mm. I asked several people and they do not seem to know what it is.

dennis - that is a very accurate summary, yes.
Dieter-K

Re: Progress & method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von Dieter-K »

Danke, NDRscons und danke, Dennis.
Jetzt habe ich auch die Details verstanden. Bilder sind immer gut.

Grüße - Dieter
Kolbenfresser

Re: Progress & method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von Kolbenfresser »

Da ist ein TT Luftfilter drin.
Gibt es auch welche die funktionieren?

Jörg
ndrscons

Re: Progress & method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von ndrscons »

I forgot to add that one change made before these 1&2 modifications was cutting out the slot per the original modification author. I have updated the instructions above... and will have to go find the link to the article.



I think ye's asking if the TT filter works. It is physically identical to the SACHS filter which was already there.

The exact filter installed in the bike, as in the photo above, is from here:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/160570605470
TT-5pack-RR.JPG
TT-5pack-RR.JPG (41.18 KiB) 4533 mal betrachtet
Each filter is in an original, individual box. They are not actually shipped 'loose' as in the photo.

And they come in bigger multi-pack orders, also...http://www.ebay.de/itm/10-x-LUFTFILTER- ... 0711673764
TT-10pack-RR.JPG
TT-10pack-RR.JPG (55.09 KiB) 4533 mal betrachtet

I also like the MOTUL 710 2-takt öl. Same vendor and various others.
Zuletzt geändert von ndrscons am Mittwoch 14. August 2013, 10:00, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
Kolbenfresser

Re: Progress & method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von Kolbenfresser »

Dieser Luftfilter ist bekannt dafür das er dem Motor die Luft nimmt und eine Deutsche Saxonette danach nur noch 16-18Km/h fährt.
Diese Luftfilter benutzt keiner mehr.

Jörg
Benutzeravatar
Sporti
Site Admin
Beiträge: 5065
Registriert: Dienstag 14. Oktober 2008, 23:30
Wohnort: 42477 Radevormwald
Kontaktdaten:

Re: Progress & method to reduce airflow restriction.

Beitrag von Sporti »

Aber bei Löchern oder Sägeschnitten im Luftfilterkasten, wird er wieder funktionsfähig.

Sporti
Webseite: http://fambalser.wix.com/balser
3D-Saxonetten Druckteile: https://www.thingiverse.com/sportidesign/designs
Sporti's Garage Filme:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa9fKgCiEQWCgFEA7RKaXxg?view_as=subscriber
Antworten